Un forum pour discuter du Jeu de Cartes Evolutif : La Légende des 5 Anneaux de FFG. |
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| Open Beta pour le nouveau système de RPG L5R | |
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+21Kami Kaze Kakita Ushio Doji Katsutoshi noisette Stéphane81 Ceithir Daisuke Shinjo Kenshin Juzam Ikoma Mog Mika Crabi Fenrirdarkwolf Kakita Minto Kurlom Makoto Nakata Shinjo Silme KerenRhys GetBackBaby Doji Kyoshiro 25 participants | |
Auteur | Message |
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Doji Kyoshiro Héros de l'Empire
Messages : 1104 Age : 43 Localisation : Toulouse
| Sujet: Re: Open Beta pour le nouveau système de RPG L5R Jeu 5 Oct - 9:10 | |
| - KerenRhys a écrit:
- Vu qu'a priori, on récupère les 2 augmentations d'anneaux d'une école (je n'ai pas vu de consigne disant de faire un choix), faire un samurai de la famille Hida membre de l'école des "Defenders" te fait perdre direct un rang d'anneau de Terre (1 de base, +1 pour le clan du Crabe, +1 pour la famille Hida, +1 pour l'école, cappé à 3). Ca semble un peu bizarre de "désavantager" comme ça une association plutôt thématique et on doit pouvoir trouver des exemples dans chaque clan (c'est la même chose pour le diplomate Doji par exemple). Y a pas de désavantage vu que quand tu dois augmenter un anneau déjà à 3 tu dois en augmenter un autre au choix à la place, tant qu'il ne dépasse pas 3 à son tour | |
| | | KerenRhys Ronin solitaire
Messages : 270 Age : 43 Localisation : Lille
| Sujet: Re: Open Beta pour le nouveau système de RPG L5R Jeu 5 Oct - 9:43 | |
| Exact, j'avais mal compris la phrase. Du coup, c'est même plutôt un avantage en fait. | |
| | | Ceithir Ji Samurai
Messages : 413 Age : 35 Localisation : Paris
| Sujet: Re: Open Beta pour le nouveau système de RPG L5R Jeu 5 Oct - 11:58 | |
| La première chose que je remarque... Et bah c'est que c'est quand même un système relativement lourd.
De par le système de dés plutôt orienté narratif, avec les émotions de ton personnage qui rentrent en compte, je m'attendais à quelque chose de super épuré, dans l'esprit de la plupart des jeux narratifs modernes justement.
Et là, tu as des tables, des listes de compétences, de techniques, de katas, de sorts etc. dans tous les sens. Sans avoir creusé le manuel dans le détail ni testé en pratique, ça n'a pas l'air à première vue plus simple que la 4ème. Juste différent.
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| | | Shinjo Silme Magistrat
Messages : 2360 Age : 43 Localisation : Toulouse
| Sujet: Re: Open Beta pour le nouveau système de RPG L5R Jeu 5 Oct - 13:39 | |
| D'accord avec Ceithir.... j'ai juste survolé mais l'impression principale c'est que ça a l'air lourd... Ca a l'air par contre assez intéressant sur certains points mais je m'attendais pas à ça non plus... On testera vite P.S : fais %£¨% ces dès alternatifs... j'aime pas particulièrement | |
| | | Doji Katsutoshi Samurai kuge
Messages : 778 Age : 37 Localisation : Bussy-Saint-Georges (77)
| Sujet: Re: Open Beta pour le nouveau système de RPG L5R Jeu 5 Oct - 13:54 | |
| Putain je savais pas quoi faire de mon week-end... euh, de ma semaine... de ma vie ! Youpiiiiiie !!! | |
| | | Kakita Minto Héros de l'Empire
Messages : 1690 Age : 37 Localisation : Liège, Belgique
| Sujet: Re: Open Beta pour le nouveau système de RPG L5R Jeu 5 Oct - 17:33 | |
| Si les dés sont jolis (pas comme ceux de SW), pourquoi pas. Le système aurait effectivement pu chercher à être plus léger (mes années de Donj' et autre warhammer sont derrière moi). On va tester quand même. ^^ | |
| | | Kakita Ushio Ronin solitaire
Messages : 269 Age : 38 Localisation : Evreux
| Sujet: Re: Open Beta pour le nouveau système de RPG L5R Jeu 5 Oct - 19:54 | |
| - Ceithir a écrit:
- Shinjo Silme a écrit:
- Sinon pour cette nouvelle version, je suis d'accord, va falloir qu'ils se déchainent pour faire mieux que la V4 de L5R... le changement n'était pas forcément nécessaire contrairement au CCG.
Oh, il y a au moins un point qui est très facilement améliorable : Le système de magie à la D&D, avec ces sorts à choisir dans un liste à chaque montée de niveau et un nombre d'utilisations fixe par jour et par élément.
Non seulement c'est relou, mais ce système froid et déterministe ne colle pas du tout à univers où la « magie » consiste à implorer des esprits élémentaires et à espérer qu'ils t'écoutent, te comprennent et aient envie de t'aider.
Après, une nouvelle édition, je suis pas contre. Si elle est bien, on l'utilisera (ou on piquera les bonnes idées pour les mettre ailleurs). Si elle est pas bien, on restera en 4ème et puis c'est tout. Il y a du vrai avec le fait que le système de magie est froid mais ca colle aussi bien à l'ambiance en ce sens que les kamis élémentaires peuvent en avoir marre d'entendre les prières de certains samurais/glandus/relous/... De plus le coté très limité des ressources en sorts forcait les joueurs à réfléchir à deux fois avant de spammer la fureur d'osano wo ou une autre joyeuseté. En plus, l'anneau du vide était justement là pour apporter un peu de souplesse. Par contre ce qui est complètement faux c'est que tout les shugenjas pouvaient très bien incanter des sorts qu'ils ne connaissaient pas : cf page 166 du livre de base de la 4e edition. Obtenir la faveur des esprits. Après c'est sûr que les conditions sont plus restrictives mais les autres sorts sont justement censés être des sorts connus. - Bayushi Mog a écrit:
- Ce que je n'aimais pas dans la 4eme Edition c'était qu'un bushi avec ses techniques + Kata + autres conneries, c'était tellement minimaxable en sale qu'à coté, personne ne jouait de Shugenja qui étaient super limités eux.
Le minmax ca se combat facilement pour un mj De mon coté je lance une opération "cobaye ashigaru" dans mon assoc de jeu pour beta tester ça. | |
| | | Ikoma Mog Hatamoto du Clan du Lion
Messages : 578 Age : 39 Localisation : Lyon
| Sujet: Re: Open Beta pour le nouveau système de RPG L5R Ven 6 Oct - 14:32 | |
| Comme je suis habitué du système Star Wars de FFG et des anciennes éditions, je suis plutôt à l'aise avec le système. Même si pour la béta ne peut avoir les dés spécifiques ça peut être chiant. Mais je vais comparer les dés à ceux de Star wars pour voir si ça colle. Bon, c'est une béta, y a pas toutes les écoles donc au niveau des questionnaires pour les persos, c'est un peu bidon.
Ah tu veux jouer un Shugenja de la famille Yogo? Ah ben non en fait, si tu veux jouer Shugenja, tu peux pas jouer certains clans comme le Dragon, la Grue, le Lion, Le Scorpion.... | |
| | | Fenrirdarkwolf Ronin solitaire
Messages : 240 Age : 43 Localisation : Besançon
| Sujet: Re: Open Beta pour le nouveau système de RPG L5R Ven 6 Oct - 14:59 | |
| Pour le moment, il y aura forcément des suppléments qui permettront de nouvelles options... | |
| | | Makoto Héros de l'Empire
Messages : 1457 Localisation : (Rodez) Aveyron
| Sujet: Re: Open Beta pour le nouveau système de RPG L5R Ven 6 Oct - 15:03 | |
| - Fenrirdarkwolf a écrit:
- Pour le moment, il y aura forcément des suppléments qui permettront de nouvelles options...
Ouais mais ça serait bien que les options de jeu classique soient présente dès le livre de base quand même. | |
| | | Shinjo Kenshin Gardien des Règles
Messages : 1090 Age : 41 Localisation : Paris
| Sujet: Re: Open Beta pour le nouveau système de RPG L5R Ven 6 Oct - 15:51 | |
| Je suppose qu'ils se sont limités à 2 écoles par clan pour simplifier le test (en tout cas, je l'espère, ça manque sérieusement de shiotome, cette affaire). J'espère bien que, dans la version finale du livre de base, il y aura au moins 1 école de bushi, 1 école de courtisans et 1 école de shugenja pour chaque clan et au moins 1 école par famille.
@Minto Malheureusement, les dés ne collent pas : la répartition des symboles ne correspond pas entre les 2 jeux. Par exemple, les d6 pour L5R ont 6 faces différentes, alors que ceux de SW n'en ont que 3 ou 4. | |
| | | Doji Kyoshiro Héros de l'Empire
Messages : 1104 Age : 43 Localisation : Toulouse
| Sujet: Re: Open Beta pour le nouveau système de RPG L5R Ven 6 Oct - 16:44 | |
| Y a marqué en gros dans le bouquin qu'ils n'ont mis que certaines classes et pas toutes celles du bouquin définitif histoire que les archétypes puissent être testés et non pas forcément des classes spécifiques. | |
| | | Ikoma Mog Hatamoto du Clan du Lion
Messages : 578 Age : 39 Localisation : Lyon
| Sujet: Re: Open Beta pour le nouveau système de RPG L5R Ven 6 Oct - 18:04 | |
| Oui c'est marqué, c'est pas pour ça que ça fait pas chier. | |
| | | Makoto Héros de l'Empire
Messages : 1457 Localisation : (Rodez) Aveyron
| Sujet: Re: Open Beta pour le nouveau système de RPG L5R Ven 6 Oct - 21:16 | |
| - Bayushi Mog a écrit:
- Oui c'est marqué, c'est pas pour ça que ça fait pas chier.
Oui surtout que ça dépend de ce qu'ils attendent des retours des joueurs... A priori ce n'est pas de détecter les failles de minimaxage intempestifs ! Pour les dés c'est une bonne astuces pour faire racheter du matériel de jeu à chaque fois. Et puis les d6 et les d12 c'est cool mais ce n'est pas intuitif pour calculer les probas de réussites sur un jet de dés... | |
| | | Ikoma Mog Hatamoto du Clan du Lion
Messages : 578 Age : 39 Localisation : Lyon
| Sujet: Re: Open Beta pour le nouveau système de RPG L5R Ven 6 Oct - 22:08 | |
| Ben surtout qu'entre le peu de faces avec des succès et les faces avec les succès explosifs, ça devient vite n'importe quoi. | |
| | | Shinjo Kenshin Gardien des Règles
Messages : 1090 Age : 41 Localisation : Paris
| Sujet: Re: Open Beta pour le nouveau système de RPG L5R Sam 7 Oct - 13:15 | |
| Ce qui rend les probas compliquées à calculer, c'est le roll & keep, en fait. Mais je vais quand même faire des calculs pour quand on garde tout.
Sur un d6 : 1 face succès, 1 face succès explosif - 0 succès : 1/2 - 1 succès : 1/3 + 1/6*1/2 = 5/12 - 2 succès : 1/6*1/3 + 1/6*1/6*1/2 = 5/72 - n succès (n>0) : 1/6^(n-1)*1/3 + 1/6^n*1/2 = 5/(2*6^n) moyenne = 0,6 succès par d6
Sur un d12 : 5 faces succès, 2 faces succès explosif - 0 succès : 5/12 - 1 succès : 5/12 + 1/6*5/12 = 35/72 - 2 succès : 1/6*5/12 + 1/6*1/6*5/12 = 35/432 - n succès (n>0) : 1/6^(n-1)*5/12 + 1/6^n*5/12 = 35/(12*6^n) moyenne = 0,7 succès par d12
Dernière édition par Shinjo Kenshin le Sam 7 Oct - 20:11, édité 1 fois | |
| | | Mika Daimyō
Messages : 5486 Age : 44 Localisation : Région Parisienne
| Sujet: Re: Open Beta pour le nouveau système de RPG L5R Sam 7 Oct - 14:34 | |
| On a une idée de ce qu'on voit sur les dés officiels ? Si vous pouvez me donner l'info, je peux ouvrir un outil de lancés de dés sur le forum. | |
| | | Shinjo Kenshin Gardien des Règles
Messages : 1090 Age : 41 Localisation : Paris
| Sujet: Re: Open Beta pour le nouveau système de RPG L5R Sam 7 Oct - 20:14 | |
| On a carrément la listes des faces.
d6 (anneau) rien succès succès + strife succès explosif + strife opportunité opportunité + strife
d12 (compétence) rien rien succès succès succès + opportunité succès + strife succès + strife succès explosif succès explosif + strife opportunité opportunité opportunité
Un succès explosif gardé permet de lancer un dé supplémentaire du même type, que tu as le choix de garder ou pas. Il n'y a pas de limite aux explosions (même si la probabilité de lancer les dés à l'infini est nulle). | |
| | | Mika Daimyō
Messages : 5486 Age : 44 Localisation : Région Parisienne
| Sujet: Re: Open Beta pour le nouveau système de RPG L5R Sam 7 Oct - 22:56 | |
| Je viens de créer les dés, par contre il faut gérer les relances " à la main". Je lance 2 dés "ring" et 3 dés "skill".
Dernière édition par Mika le Sam 7 Oct - 22:59, édité 1 fois | |
| | | Kami Kaze Voix du Forum
Messages : 67
| Sujet: Re: Open Beta pour le nouveau système de RPG L5R Sam 7 Oct - 22:56 | |
| Le membre ' Mika' a effectué l'action suivante : Lancer de dés
#1 'Ring (6)' : -------------------------------- #2 'Skill (12)' : | |
| | | Mika Daimyō
Messages : 5486 Age : 44 Localisation : Région Parisienne
| Sujet: Re: Open Beta pour le nouveau système de RPG L5R Sam 7 Oct - 22:58 | |
| En regardant mon jet, je m'aperçois que j'aime bien le choix qui s'impose aux joueurs avec le "strife". Comment lancer des dés sur le forum ?Cliquez sur . Il y a une nouvelle ligne qui apparaît sous la fenêtre de message. Dans "lancer de dés#1" choisissez un des dés que j'ai "programmé" : Ring (6) Skill (12) D10 Dans "Nombre de lancés" rentre le nombre de dés que vous voulez lancer. N'oubliez pas pas d'écrire quelques mots dans votre message quand même.(Sinon ça marche pas) Et vous envoyez ! | |
| | | Shinjo Kenshin Gardien des Règles
Messages : 1090 Age : 41 Localisation : Paris
| Sujet: Re: Open Beta pour le nouveau système de RPG L5R Sam 7 Oct - 23:41 | |
| Une différence importante par rapport au système avec les d10, c'est que tu peux garder moins de dés que le maximum (ton rang dans l'anneau, qui est aussi le nombre de d6 que tu lances), tant que tu en gardes au moins 1. | |
| | | Mika Daimyō
Messages : 5486 Age : 44 Localisation : Région Parisienne
| Sujet: Re: Open Beta pour le nouveau système de RPG L5R Jeu 19 Oct - 10:58 | |
| Les news de la Bêta : - Spoiler:
Greetings Legend of the Five Rings Open Beta Testers, We’re still gathering items for a substantial rules update, so we’re going to make our first big set of revisions a matter for next week. For today, here a summary of what we’re looking at, where you should expect major revisions next week, and some of our thoughts behind this! After you read over these notes, please fill out our Week 3 survey to give us your feedback on some of the ideas here and weigh in on which minor clan you’d like to see previewed in the next content update! Under Revision Duels There has been a lot of great feedback on Duels! Obviously, people are very passionate about dueling in Rokugan. As such, we’re making some pretty considerable changes, tying the rules for objectives much more directly into the lore surrounding duels in Rokugan. Iaijutsu Related to duels, Iaijutsu is another matter people care a lot about, and we want to get it right, so we’re going to flesh it out a bit more. Instead of being represented by single technique, Iaijutsu will be represented a number of techniques representing different draws, while the rules of the single-draw duel will be covered more deeply in duel rules themselves. Outbursts (terminology and theme) We’re not overhauling the fundamental mechanic of strife and outbursts just yet, but we’re going to continue massaging the language that surrounds them. Outbursts are intended to promote roleplaying rather than impede the story, but names often inform people’s roleplaying in subtle but influential ways. As such, we’re offering a number of alternatives to “Outburst” as the terminology in the survey (or you can vote for “Outburst,” if you’re in the camp that thinks it’s still the best fit). Additionally, the sample options available for outbursts might be adjusted, simplified, or expanded in various ways. Are options you’d want to see missing? Are there other issues you’ve run into with the current options in play? If you have feedback on these options, either in presentation or content, please discuss them on the forums or email us your feedback directly! Wounds (terminology and theme) In the same vein, one idea that has been raised is that the theme of “wounds” might be better with a different name, reflecting a character growing more vulnerable to a serious injury (a critical strike) in battle. We’ve got a couple of alternatives that could substantially alter the theme of this mechanic, so take a look and tell us which of these you like the best! Weapon Readiness We want to maintain the paradigm of “one action per turn” during conflicts, but weapon readiness and the related “action economy” needs some work. We’re going to give this a once-over to make it clearer and possibly revamp it entirely. Numerous Small Omissions and Corrections The update we’re currently compiling for release next week has an assortment of corrections, updates, and additions to address gaps in the text. We’ll continue to gather these throughout the Open Beta, so please point them out as you observe them! Under Close Scrutiny Stances (especially Earth) A lot of people are worried about Earth stance, but we want a bit more play-session data before we make any major revisions. Right now, we’re hearing a lot of reports of various stances being too powerful compared to the others. This might be a sign that they’re all actually fairly balanced (ideally, we want every stance to feel “overpowered” when you’re using it, so that you have an incentive to shift rings), or it might just mean people need a bit more time to sift out where they actually fall. Air stance not scaling at all against dice pools that do scale is a bit concerning, so we’re keeping an eye on that. Things We’re Sticking With for Now Strife Strife is core to Legend of the Five Rings as a game of samurai drama. There are a lot of specifics that can change, but this concept—the idea that pushing yourself requires emotional investment (the decision whether to keep dice with strife results to get the associated positive result)—is important. Rokugani samurai are supposed to be stoic and, to a certain degree, even detached. But humans are beings ruled by emotion at least as much as by reason, and that emotion can be a source of strength and a vulnerability at the same time. Strife is there to help Game Masters and players roleplay this important aspect of their characters, giving them a cue of when this state hits a tipping point. Like all RPG rules, strife is a tool. Is strife serving in this role as a tool as well as it possibly can? We’d like to find that out during the Beta. Outbursts (conceptually) To those skeptical of strife and outbursts, one piece of advice: try letting outbursts happen. Instead of looking at them as something to prevent at all costs, see what happens when your character sheds tears into their sleeve publicly, cries out the name of their secret lover when they believe they are about to die, or shouts in jubilation after finally folding a paper crane properly. Remember, you (the player) get to choose where this goes. This is your character’s moment in the spotlight—what do their raw emotions reveal about them that others might not normally get to see? Where does this take the story? In the same vein, GMs, don’t look to use outbursts as a way to entrap the characters—instead, use them to further the story. An outburst might allow a character to shed their mask long enough to truly connect with someone else even as it might jeopardize a character’s reputation. The results of an outburst should match the stakes of the scene and the tenor of the moment. Of course, the name “outburst” seems to be evoking especially violent displays of emotion, so perhaps it’s not the most fitting name. The options provided mechanically might also need to be revised, expanded, or simplified in various ways. Take a look in the survey and give us your feedback directly on this matter! TNs to be Hit There are some calls for passive increases to TNs to be hit, but this is actually something we don’t want to implement based on the dice math. Simply put, the combat isn’t balanced around the assumption that characters will miss a majority of their attacks. We want defending to be a choice a character makes, with relevant costs and vulnerabilities. Earth stance protects against Opportunities. Water stance protects against strife. Air stance protects against being hit. Guard lets you protect yourself and others, but limits your offensive potential and flexiblity. The numbers might not all stack up evenly right now, and we’re evaluating those aspects, but we want defensive options to be just that: options, that have tradeoffs and create interesting choices. With that said, there are a few things that do complicate the equation. Some NPCs may benefit from a passive modifier to be hit (usually under certain circumstances or by specific attacks, forcing players to be creative in their offensive strategies). Also, kata and other abilities can provide substantial defensive boosts. Further, it seems like some people are mostly concerned with the theme that their characters can be “unhittable” rather than the mechanic that their characters never lose resources during combat as they approach a serious injury. As mentioned above, we’re by no means committed to damage turning into “wounds” if another theme is fits better, so please consider your survey answers carefully in this regard!Greetings Legend of the Five Rings Open Beta Testers, We’re still gathering items for a substantial rules update, so we’re going to make our first big set of revisions a matter for next week. For today, here a summary of what we’re looking at, where you should expect major revisions next week, and some of our thoughts behind this! After you read over these notes, please fill out our Week 3 survey to give us your feedback on some of the ideas here and weigh in on which minor clan you’d like to see previewed in the next content update! Under Revision Duels There has been a lot of great feedback on Duels! Obviously, people are very passionate about dueling in Rokugan. As such, we’re making some pretty considerable changes, tying the rules for objectives much more directly into the lore surrounding duels in Rokugan. Iaijutsu Related to duels, Iaijutsu is another matter people care a lot about, and we want to get it right, so we’re going to flesh it out a bit more. Instead of being represented by single technique, Iaijutsu will be represented a number of techniques representing different draws, while the rules of the single-draw duel will be covered more deeply in duel rules themselves. Outbursts (terminology and theme) We’re not overhauling the fundamental mechanic of strife and outbursts just yet, but we’re going to continue massaging the language that surrounds them. Outbursts are intended to promote roleplaying rather than impede the story, but names often inform people’s roleplaying in subtle but influential ways. As such, we’re offering a number of alternatives to “Outburst” as the terminology in the survey (or you can vote for “Outburst,” if you’re in the camp that thinks it’s still the best fit). Additionally, the sample options available for outbursts might be adjusted, simplified, or expanded in various ways. Are options you’d want to see missing? Are there other issues you’ve run into with the current options in play? If you have feedback on these options, either in presentation or content, please discuss them on the forums or email us your feedback directly! Wounds (terminology and theme) In the same vein, one idea that has been raised is that the theme of “wounds” might be better with a different name, reflecting a character growing more vulnerable to a serious injury (a critical strike) in battle. We’ve got a couple of alternatives that could substantially alter the theme of this mechanic, so take a look and tell us which of these you like the best! Weapon Readiness We want to maintain the paradigm of “one action per turn” during conflicts, but weapon readiness and the related “action economy” needs some work. We’re going to give this a once-over to make it clearer and possibly revamp it entirely. Numerous Small Omissions and Corrections The update we’re currently compiling for release next week has an assortment of corrections, updates, and additions to address gaps in the text. We’ll continue to gather these throughout the Open Beta, so please point them out as you observe them! Under Close Scrutiny Stances (especially Earth) A lot of people are worried about Earth stance, but we want a bit more play-session data before we make any major revisions. Right now, we’re hearing a lot of reports of various stances being too powerful compared to the others. This might be a sign that they’re all actually fairly balanced (ideally, we want every stance to feel “overpowered” when you’re using it, so that you have an incentive to shift rings), or it might just mean people need a bit more time to sift out where they actually fall. Air stance not scaling at all against dice pools that do scale is a bit concerning, so we’re keeping an eye on that. Things We’re Sticking With for Now Strife Strife is core to Legend of the Five Rings as a game of samurai drama. There are a lot of specifics that can change, but this concept—the idea that pushing yourself requires emotional investment (the decision whether to keep dice with strife results to get the associated positive result)—is important. Rokugani samurai are supposed to be stoic and, to a certain degree, even detached. But humans are beings ruled by emotion at least as much as by reason, and that emotion can be a source of strength and a vulnerability at the same time. Strife is there to help Game Masters and players roleplay this important aspect of their characters, giving them a cue of when this state hits a tipping point. Like all RPG rules, strife is a tool. Is strife serving in this role as a tool as well as it possibly can? We’d like to find that out during the Beta. Outbursts (conceptually) To those skeptical of strife and outbursts, one piece of advice: try letting outbursts happen. Instead of looking at them as something to prevent at all costs, see what happens when your character sheds tears into their sleeve publicly, cries out the name of their secret lover when they believe they are about to die, or shouts in jubilation after finally folding a paper crane properly. Remember, you (the player) get to choose where this goes. This is your character’s moment in the spotlight—what do their raw emotions reveal about them that others might not normally get to see? Where does this take the story? In the same vein, GMs, don’t look to use outbursts as a way to entrap the characters—instead, use them to further the story. An outburst might allow a character to shed their mask long enough to truly connect with someone else even as it might jeopardize a character’s reputation. The results of an outburst should match the stakes of the scene and the tenor of the moment. Of course, the name “outburst” seems to be evoking especially violent displays of emotion, so perhaps it’s not the most fitting name. The options provided mechanically might also need to be revised, expanded, or simplified in various ways. Take a look in the survey and give us your feedback directly on this matter! TNs to be Hit There are some calls for passive increases to TNs to be hit, but this is actually something we don’t want to implement based on the dice math. Simply put, the combat isn’t balanced around the assumption that characters will miss a majority of their attacks. We want defending to be a choice a character makes, with relevant costs and vulnerabilities. Earth stance protects against Opportunities. Water stance protects against strife. Air stance protects against being hit. Guard lets you protect yourself and others, but limits your offensive potential and flexiblity. The numbers might not all stack up evenly right now, and we’re evaluating those aspects, but we want defensive options to be just that: options, that have tradeoffs and create interesting choices. With that said, there are a few things that do complicate the equation. Some NPCs may benefit from a passive modifier to be hit (usually under certain circumstances or by specific attacks, forcing players to be creative in their offensive strategies). Also, kata and other abilities can provide substantial defensive boosts. Further, it seems like some people are mostly concerned with the theme that their characters can be “unhittable” rather than the mechanic that their characters never lose resources during combat as they approach a serious injury. As mentioned above, we’re by no means committed to damage turning into “wounds” if another theme is fits better, so please consider your survey answers carefully in this regard!
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| | | silavon Ashigaru courageux
Messages : 97 Age : 48 Localisation : St Cyr l'école
| Sujet: Re: Open Beta pour le nouveau système de RPG L5R Jeu 19 Oct - 12:05 | |
| Ce que je n'aimais pas/plus sur le système R&K au D10 c'est le fait que pour qu'un dé explose il fallait déjà avoir un "10", soit le meilleur résultat possible. Du coup l'écart entre un 8 ou 9 et un "10" pouvait être énorme. Lorsque la difficulté commençait à être élevée, la réussite imposait en général d'avoir au moins un "10".
Dans le système proposé il n'y a pas de différence de valeur entre un succès et un succès explosif (en dehors du côté explosif). En plus, un dé explosif peut, certes, donner un succès supplémentaire mais il peut aussi être une nouvelle source de "strife".
J'ai l'impression que les jets sont plutôt simples à réussir de base, l'avantage apporté par l'augmentation de puissance (plus de dés à lancer/garder) est surtout intéressant pour réduire le gain en "strife" tout en réussissant ses actions.
Une autre chose que je n'aimais pas/plus dans les anciennes versions, c'est l’hyper-spécialisation des personnages, surtout à cause des écoles. Si on voulait être "bon" dans un domaine, on devenait vite "trop bon" dans ce domaine, pour avoir une opposition intéressante, il fallait aussi que l'adversaire soit spécialisé dans le domaine, il devient alors trop fort pour les autres joueurs non spécialisés. Sur le papier j'ai l'impression que c'est plus équilibré (mais je n'ai pas assez lu encore pour être sûr de moi)
Pour la lourdeur général, je suis assez d'accord. J'ai l'impression que pour l'instant ça hésite entre la lourdeur (richesse) d'un Warhammer V3 et le dynamisme d'un Star Wars FFG. Le fait que chaque option d'action vienne avec ses entrées de dépense d'opportunités inciterait à jouer avec des cartes rappelant les effets des diverses actions (comme sur Warhammer V3) On retrouve également le mécanisme de plan de carrière à la Warhammer V3. Je trouve étrange ce retour en arrière tant le système Star Wars FFG paraissait une réelle évolution positive vis à vis de Warhammer.
J'aime bien le fait que les joueurs soient récompensés lorsqu'ils réussissent à "placer" leurs désavantages, leurs failles (mais je pense que c'est un peu la mode dans les jeux modernes).
Je n'ai pas encore eut l'occasion de tester en jeu ce que ça donnait mais pour l'instant j'ai plutôt une impression positive. | |
| | | Mika Daimyō
Messages : 5486 Age : 44 Localisation : Région Parisienne
| Sujet: Re: Open Beta pour le nouveau système de RPG L5R Jeu 26 Oct - 14:28 | |
| Nouvelles news de la Bêta : - Spoiler:
Greetings, Legend of the Five Rings Open Beta Testers!
We’ve just put the finishing touches on the first update to the beta! According to our most recent survey, almost half of you still haven’t had a chance to put the system through its paces in play, so we hope you can get the beta on the table soon and try out the first wave of updates! This update addresses several issues you’ve already spotted and tweaks some of the mechanics to reinforce the themes of the setting while making the game more fun. You can find a summary of the changes later in this email!
We’re also excited to preview character creation options for our very first minor clan: the Mantis! Yoritomo’s fleets from the Islands of Silk and Spice led with a majority showing, with the Fox coming in second at 33% and the impoverished Suzume family at a mere 15%. (It’s okay, Suzume-san, at least you still have your yams!) Thank you to everyone who voted, and we’ll have some more polls for you to participate in going forward.
The Game of Character Creation
This week, we want the focus of your playtest feedback to be the character creation process. I’m one of those players who enjoys making new characters almost as much as I enjoy actually playing the game. I’ve learned better than to inflict my GM with ten-page character backstories (and I don’t have as much free time as I used to), but I still love to flesh out my characters’ relationships, histories, hopes, fears, strengths, and weaknesses, with the hopes that the GM will eventually highlight them during a session. In the campaigns that I’ve run as a GM, I’ve often handed out supplemental questionnaires to get my players thinking about these narrative elements for their character—and to help me create a campaign that’s truly driven by the characters. The Legend of the Five Rings RPG stood out because it’s had a questionnaire since the very first edition: the Game of Twenty Questions.
When I had to opportunity to design the new edition of the L5R RPG with Max, I wanted to bake these story choices into character creation from the very start. I was reviewing the old Game of Twenty Questions when I realized many of the answers had mechanical implications, although those mechanics were actually recorded during the steps of an entirely separate character creation process. They didn’t have to be separate, I thought. The Game of Twenty Questions could serve as the main vehicle of character creation—the questions could become prompts for defining both the narrative and mechanical elements of a character at the same time, so that they would be considered together.
In the fourth edition of Legend of the Five Rings RPG, the bulk of that separate character creation process included spending forty experience points on whatever the player liked. In theory, this allowed players to tailor their character to reflect what they wanted narratively, but in my experience, players (myself included!) tried to wring every last mechanical edge they could out of those 40XP. It’s the Law of the Instrument rearing its head: because mechanics were the tools we had to build our characters, we were thinking mechanically first. Often, I wrote my character backstory second, basing the details on the build I was able to create.
When designing the new edition, I didn’t want to feel as much a slave to the mechanics. So we made the decision to remove XP expenditure from the base process.
The other reason we moved away from the free-spend XP model was to make the game more approachable for new players. In the old editions, there were a lot of different ways players could spend that XP, and some were much more powerful mechanically than others. For players who have never played the game before, that’s a lot of choices to process all at once! Moreover, it’s hard to know precisely how you want to play your character, and what you should invest in, until you’ve tried the game and walked around in your character’s shoes for a while.
Now, we’ve tried to narrow the focus so that players are considering one aspect at a time. You aren’t filling up an entire scrap piece of paper calculating what this mechanical combination costs compared to another in terms of XP. Now, in one question the player is defining an element of their character that is represented by an advantage, something that provides the player with a concrete narrative hook for their character while at the same time giving them a mechanical way to stand out during play. In another question, they can focus on choosing an additional skill or not. And so on.
We’re eager to hear from you whether character creation is achieving that goal and the goals of your group, and what we can improve to make character creation more intuitive and story-rich. In this update, we’ve also included guidelines for how and when to bring back experience points to the character creation process for advanced players or particular campaign concepts. The characters you can build with the Twenty Questions method are designed to represent samurai who have just come out of their coming-of-age ceremony, their gempuku. Importantly, these options still build on the existing Game of Twenty Questions meant to marry narrative with mechanics.
Week 4 Beta Update
This week marks our first major update! We’ve made a number of updates, some of them larger than others. While many are small corrections and revisions, there are a few topics for which we made notable changes!
Strife and Unmasking “Unmasking” is the new term for “outbursts,” and it functions in a slightly different way. We want people who were enjoying the outburst system to be able to play it almost exactly the same way—but we also want people who feel their samurai should be able to remain stoic to have that flexibility. As such, when a character’s strife exceeds their composure, they become compromised. While compromised, a character cannot keep dice with strife symbols.
Now, their player has a choice. They can try to find ways for their character to shed strife during this time (essentially the equivalent of the old “Shut Down” option). Or, they can choose for their character to unmask, dropping their facade briefly (in what was an outburst before) to express their emotions outwardly. They clear all their strife, and must resolve the narrative and mechanical effects of unmasking (which are slightly modified from prior outbrusts, but fill largely the same functions). This means that unmasking is always a choice, and if a player really feels it would be inappropriate for their character to show emotion at a given time, they don’t have to.
We hope that this system will have greater flexibility, helping to underscore player agency while still offering all the roleplaying cues and interesting mechanical interactions around emotions that others like about the previous outburst system!
Wounds become Fatigue Based on the poll and a lengthy internal discussion, wounds are being re-themed as fatigue—reflecting exertion as a character grows more vulnerable to a hit that causes a serious injury (still represented by critical strikes). Mechanically, this is very similar, but it does open up certain thematic avenues—for instance, it makes more sense for characters to intentionally suffer fatigue to get extra effects, and also for a character to recover small amounts of fatigue over a short period of time with certain abilities.
Duels Duel objectives have been reframed and reworked to better fit into the lore of the setting! This includes closer guidance on what constitutes an iaijutsu duel, but also various other forms of duels, including no-holds-barred battles between warriors, sparring bouts, and Taryu-Jiai, the supernatural contests fought between shugenja.
Stances Several stances have received a bit of a retuning. In light of the modifications to strife and unmasking, we wanted shedding strife to be a bit slower during conflicts. As such, two stances have been somewhat overhauled: Water stance now provides additional action that can only be used to perform an action that does not require a check. This could include taking a minor narrative action, drawing or stowing an item, moving further, or even catching your breath to heal a bit of strife or fatigue. Air stance now increases the TN to hit you by half your school rank (rounded up). This means that it scales as you (and your enemies) grow stronger—which all other stances do, directly or in effect. Previously, it provided only a small benefit for high-rank characters, but now it provides a fairly static benefit across your character’s lifespan. Iaijutsu Technique Instead of being represented with a single technqiue, Iaijutsu has been split into two techniques, with a few more to come in the future. These techniques have been rebalanced to provide more benefit—they also are somewhat better based on some of the action economy changes that have been implemented (see below).
Action Economy Revisions This set of alterations is subtle, but important. The previous version allowed very free movement and drawing/sheathing of weapons, but it did make abilities that improve weapon drawing /mobility somewhat weaker. However, this wasn’t the only model we had experimented with in Alpha. Thus, before the Beta gets too far along, we’d like to try another way of handling this aspect of the game.
In short, during a conflict, movement (beyond one range band) and weapon manipulation are more restricted, often requiring an action. However, the Water stance now grants the ability to perform an action without a check. Further, certain abilities help to mitigate these restrictions (such as Iaijutsu Cuts).
This is a change that has a fairly substantial effect at the table despite seeming potentially insignificant on reading (as compared to some rather obvious changes, like the update from outbursts to unmasking or the rewriting of duel objectives as dueling terms), so we ask that people pay close attention to it to make sure that it’s working well. If it becomes too restrictive in encounters, please let us know!
Thanks again for participating, and we look forward to hearing from you soon!
Katrina and Max L5R RPG Development Team
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| Sujet: Re: Open Beta pour le nouveau système de RPG L5R | |
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